Why I Chose Harvard Extension to Complete My Undergraduate Degree
I bet that a lot of you think I chose it because it’s Harvard.
You’re only partly right. The name did have an effect on my choice but only tangentially so.
I was intrigued by the idea that a school like Harvard would offer distance education courses for credit and even more suprised that they offered degrees.
But it was much more important for me to find a good fit between what I was trying to achieve and what the school offered. To be successful, I needed to join a school that was targeting students who were like me: working adults with full schedules. For me, Harvard Extension was that school.
I’m often asked why I didn’t choose to attend a local school instead. The best answer that I can give is that they didn’t have a functioning and robust program for distance education combined with a rigorous academic level. Distance education is such a huge factor for me that I’m now biased against any school that hasn’t embraced this method of learning. It saves so much time and solve so many problems for people that I can’t imagine why more schools aren’t taking advantage or expanding their programs.
It isn’t hard to find distance-ed programs. There are plenty of them that are out there. The real challenge is finding a school that doesn’t treat them like an afterthought. That’s why it’s important to focus on the program itself rather than the name on the diploma. In the end, nobody will care where you went to school. They are much more interested in who you turned out to be.
I saw this article in the paper. The choice quote:
When I was 20 an older friend predicted, “Ten years from now, no one will care where you went to school. In fact, no one will ask.” Ridiculous, I thought. She turned out to be right. Where you live between the ages of 18 and 22 won’t define who you are. One day soon, the proud new college decal on your family car’s rear window will start looking a little uncool.
The author is correct. It’s not really that important where you went to school. It’s more important that the school is the right one for you. For me, that happened to be Harvard. Your ideal school match might be different. Don’t get too worked up about it.
Of course, when you’re on campus and looking at all those historic buildings, it’s hard not to allow yourself to believe the fantasy of it all. Just don’t let yourself be fooled. A degree from Harvard won’t change who you are. I have to keep reminding myself of that too.
Now that I’m looking for a graduate program to continue my studies, I’m faced with the same sorts of questions: What place is going to be the best fit for me? Where will I feel most comfortable? Where do I think I’ll be able to learn the most?
I’m torn between continuing on at Harvard Extension and their ALM in IT program and pursuing the Columbia MS in Computer Science option. On paper, the Columbia program is very impressive. I just couldn’t help feeling like the place was just a little bit too cold for me.
I might just be nervous about changing schools at some point. I just felt like I should put it out there so that people don’t think that the choice of where to go to school is always so automatic (i.e. pick the best name). Choosing where you will spend the next several years in intense study isn’t a decision to be taken lightly. Spend some time on it and try to choose wisely. Don’t let anyone else’s opinion drive yours. Make your own choice.
After all, it’s your life.
120 comments
I am seeking to pursue my Under Graduate degree at Harvard University Extension School. After days of researching, I have came across your blog and very glad. It would a life changing support if you can help me with some questions I have. Please feel free and do call me at 214-xxx-xxxx [Ed: number deleted] anytime of the day.
Hello, I also was very grateful for your blog! I feel as though the stress of the GREs, combined with looking for the precise program fit to my needs is overwhelming! I would love to correspond with you if you have the chance, I have left my e-mail
Thanks!
Feel free to ask your questions. I’m happy to give you my help.
I am a Detroiter coming to live in Boston or Cambridge I guess, however, you want to call it. I have basic questions about the life there. The people, the locals and the school dorms or those extremely expensive apts. I really want to go for the connections I know I will make in the long run.
Boston is expensive. Most folks who move there live a bit farther out and take the red line into Cambridge to go to school.
Hi Richard,
Thank you. I agree with you; this decision shouldn’t be taken lightly. I am at a crossroad in my life and am forced to making an important decision. It would be great to briefly talk with you, since I have some questions for you. I have left me email if you would kindly respond.
Thank You Very Much! Good Day!
Tj
I have decided to stay at Ashford University and take a few courses in the Harvard Extension program. I think diversity in an education is important, both the courses taken and the Universities attended, as long as a sensible amount of credits are attained. Eventually I would want to take as many on campus courses as I could which leads me to my question: If I were to do really well and graduate in the Extension program would that help in my chances in becoming a future matriculated (or non second degree earning at first) student in Harvard College?
I did read your essay and I did see that some coursework is reuired on campus for degree seekers and that if we are real nice to the professors we may have additional visits, I figured I would take the line of questioning one step further.
I am 29 years old and newly married, but I still have ambitions.
Jacob,
I seem to remember that there were a few students who were able to gain admittance to the College after taking coursework in a degree program at HES. As I recall, they were not able to transfer any of the work they did at HES into the College. They started off at square one. Even so, examples are exceedingly rare.
HES is designed for adults. Working adults. Sometimes with families. The College is for 18-22 year olds. Everyone at the College lives in the dorms. See the difference? Why would you want to, as a 29 year old, live with a bunch of 18 year olds?
It helps to remember that the HES programs aren’t of the prep school variety. It’s not a mechanism to prepare you to go to some other university, even if that’s what a lot of students do. The degree programs at HES are full and complete degree programs in their own right. The school isn’t really a feeder to the College. It’s a part of the University proper. Read up on the school on Wikipedia and you’ll get a better feel for what I mean.
If you live in the Boston area, I’d have a look at what they have to offer. By far, the best part of HES is gaining access to the libraries and faculty. The opportunity to take Harvard courses with Harvard profs (albeit via distance) is a superb benefit.
If you really want to go to Harvard but don’t want to do HES, do well in undergrad and apply to one of the graduate schools.
Richard,
excellent points. That answers my question. Performing well in both collegiate programs could improve my chances of getting into a graduate program in Harvard College, and even if that did not happen, the program would be very rewarding. Yes you are correct, as a married working adult I would not want to be living in the dorm setting.
Bravo Ric…I love your comments.
The reason I am going to start taking classes at Harvard Spring 2009 is because I just wanted to add more of a flavorable education to my repetoire.
I am a behaviorist by nature and so Harvard’s psychology classes appeal to me. – All the best Richard on your choice of grad school.
I ‘m sure you will pick the best one for you.
Sincerely, Michelle
Richard,
Yours is in its own right is the most honest review of HES that I have read. Kudos to you.
I was enticed into a career on Wall Street midway through college and never finished my degree, after a few years of laboring I decided to pursue my passion and worked hard at a career as a classical vocalist. Now I am married with children and slightly under 40, and feel as through my maturation process that “the jig is up.” I lament never finishing my degree and honestly, the thought of maintaining a travel log of being apart from my family is not very attractive any longer. I would like to pursue a course of study in Govt./Law. I have excelled in the two online courses that I have taken at HES with a perfect record, but still am curious about what weight does the Harvard night school carry qualitatively? The quantitative aspects do not lie- but is the core value of the qualitative course of study (using the overall value and quality of course offerings, professors, and program requirements as factors) equivalent to what the expectations are in the kingdom of the upper echelon, or are we to liken it to a “Harvard Community College”?
Thanks for your blog and all the best.
Jerome,
I’m going to try and answer your questions as best I can.
First, let me tell you that you are absolutely not alone. Don’t for a second feel like you made the wrong choice to follow the path you did. Whatever led you to the life you have now, that’s all history. Keep looking forward. HES is my third try to finish my education. I sometimes feel like I missed the boat and I grow wistful remembering my early college years as a 19-year old. It’s hard sometimes not to be jealous of the youngsters in Harvard Yard who are in one of the best places to get a head start on their lives. Then I remember how unfocused and chaotic my life was and how hard it was to get a clear picture of who I was and who I wanted to be.
I’m all past that now.
Second, studying Government and Law aren’t beyond you even at this stage in your life. If for nothing else, you can pursue a degree and focus on those subjects to see if you really do desire further study. Law schools take in plenty of people in their 30-s and 40-s. Politics is filled with people who got into the game late in life. Government institutions need your life experience. Focus on your strengths.
Finally, as far as HES goes, keep in mind that the program that they offer is largely based on a liberal arts curriculum. As such, it’s going to focus on some mix of the humanities, writing, and critical thinking rather than some of the pre-something programs offered by other schools to prepare students for professional programs like medicine and law. That said, they also (for reasons which should be clear based on their intended audience) offer a range of courses that are primarily focused on teaching a specific career-related skill like programming with a certain tool or performing financial analysis. If you examine the course offerings of the College and the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, you’ll note that their offerings are much more theory-based. They teach principles and leave the ultimate acquisition of any specific skill up to the student during their career. The typical HES student is already well-entrenched in a career and is trying to either adapt to the changing requirements of their profession or prepare themselves for a new one. A significant fraction of students are simply trying to complete a degree for which they will see no immediate impact on their career. They simply wanted to complete their degree in a way that didn’t force them to give up their career or impact their family life too greatly.
Some folks will point to this distinction as evidence that the College is superior to HES. They see a school that doesn’t proactively perform admit/deny actions on specific students as somehow lesser, as if something everyone can do (or some school everyone can attend) isn’t worthwhile.
Those people are wrong. If HES degrees were easy to get, then half of Boston would have them by now. Cost certainly isn’t a barrier. Neither is access. The only probable answer is that the program is difficult and uncertain enough that only those who are truly committed can ever complete it. That’s not to say that it’s impossible; nothing could be further from the truth. But a successful student at HES is going to be a unique kind of character: someone who cared enough about their education to do it mostly on their own along a path that isn’t easy to complete by any reasonable standard.
Try not to think of the College as providing access to the upper echelon. Many of the students there were well entrenched in the higher reaches of society before they ever set foot in Cambridge.
I found Harvard to be welcoming but presenting a certain expectation that I would understand what standard was required of me when it came to coursework. That didn’t change while I was taking classes. Instead, I changed to meet the standard.
At HES, if you choose wisely, you can take classes that are offered simultaneously to the College students. You’ll be graded by the same standards and you’ll be competing with the College students for grades. Take that as a challenge. Few people are aware of this important detail. Same class. Same Professor. Same work. Same tests.
Whether or not some potential friend, colleague, mate, or employer will see the value of your experience is almost completely up to them. The best way to ensure that they have a high opinion of Harvard Extension is for them to have a high opinion of you.
Richard-
The profundity of your answer proves to me that indeed Harvard produces qualitative graduates. My biggest challenge that I face is putting together a package that allows me to travel from NYC to Cambridge and back in one day/night, for I am responsible for bringing my children to their respective schools in the am. I am tentative and it is my own prodigious sepulcher that grows with my procrastination. The ” special student status” is indeed attractive as I am keen on taking Moral Reasoning with Sandel. Keep your eyes on the prize and thank you.
Quote– “A degree from Harvard won’t change who you are. ”
Ha– yea right— a degree from Harvard will make a poor man, a rich man– a middle class to an upperclass etc etc etc
Its a fact— 99% of all Harvard grads are working within 3 months of graduation— top jobs at that— when I graduated with my Bachelors, I was unemployed for 8 months until I finally landed a job.
Kevin,
The last time I was at Harvard I met a new Ph.D from MIT who was having a hard time getting a job. He wanted to know if I could help.
If you’re worried about getting a job, then maybe you’re right. Harvard grads are heavily recruited mainly because they confer bragging rights. Another reason is because there are networks of folks in top positions at top firms who extend their personal network by hiring grads from their alma mater.
But the essence of my statement is correct. If you were an immoral, selfish person then Harvard won’t cure you of that. If you were shy and unconfident, a degree from Harvard might help convince you otherwise, but then again, it might provide opportunities to avoid people by concentrating on the minutia of some obscure subject.
I can tell you this: completing a degree…any degree…will convince an employer that you are capable of doing sustained work and seeing a project through to completion. Absent anything else, that’s usually all they have to go on when making a hiring decision.
And I doubt your facts. Quite a few students leave Harvard and go on to graduate school. And not every student who goes to Harvard College gets into Harvard Medical School. One of my colleagues is married to one. Not every graduate of Harvard College gets into Harvard Business School. I know plenty of those. And there are tons that apply and never get into Harvard Law.
Don’t read more into the degree than is there.
Jerome,
Travel between Cambridge and NYC is easily achieved with a combination of Amtrak and the MBTA Red Line. They interconnect at Boston South Station.
My suggestion is that if you need to take courses on campus, try to pick two classes that are on the same evening so you can cut the amount of time you spend in Cambridge down to one night a week. I did that, and I was flying up every week from Washington, DC.
Another suggestion is to see if you can bring the kids along. I don’t know if you have a car, but an entire semester is only 16 weeks. You might find that there are more options than you think for bringing your children along to Cambridge. Ask the HES office for suggestions. Your problem is not unique. Lots of students at HES have children too.
hi…i need to do this course E-100 from harvard extension school.and i have no clue how to go about it..are there any pre-requisites for this course? do let me know if u cld help.thanx
Hello Richard, I am a single mom and completed my undergrad with NU and wanted to start the graduate process and a friend of mines forwarded me the info regarding the HES program. I thought wow a program that doesn’t require you taking the GMAT. What does this mean? Needless to say I was a little skeptical and really wanted to make sure this is the right decision for me and my family. I just want to make sure a graduate degree through HES is as good as me taking a standardized test and getting a decent score and trying to apply/get into a MBA program.
Dawnesha,
The choice of school really depends on your goals. The GMAT isn’t too terrible a test to take and I encourage you to take it.
That said, HES is really designed for students that have a problem giving up a family or career to attend school. The closest analogue is the idea of “night-school.”
Since the students at HES tend to be older and more accomplished in their careers, traditional admissions practices (like undergrad GPAs and test scores) aren’t really useful as a barometer of a student’s probability of success.
Instead, HES used the GPA you receive AFTER you take three of their classes. What this means is that you might try the three classes and find that you can’t get good enough grades to qualify for admission to the program. The courses for graduate programs are about $2K each so you are taking a risk there if you aren’t sure you can do the work.
One more thing: the programs at HES aren’t strictly pre-professional or even professional in nature. There is a heavy emphasis on liberal arts type coursework that highlights and strengthens the critical thinking skills that sometimes get list in other programs.
One more thing: you will probably need to complete a thesis in order to graduate. It’s a big hurdle and probably the biggest reason that people don’t finish the degree. Some have compared it to a Ph.D dissertation requirement in other programs. Don’t forget to consider that in your deliberations.
I can’t make the decision for you. Plenty of people try and fail to complete a graduate degree at HES. Ultimately, how you feel about getting the degree from HES indicates a particular desire you have and whether HES is the right way to satisfy it. Just keep in mind that at this stage of your life, a degree from Harvard probably won’t hurt you and might even help. Just don’t get too caught up with the name when thinking about how the school might fit into your plans.
I wish you good luck.
Jerome,
I am married with two kids and a full time job, but I still found the time to graduate from HES — ALM in Management.
There are many alternatives, but if you must be home each morning to ferry your kids to school then you only have one — drive to Cambridge.
I drove to Cambridge, from Northern New Jersey, once or twice a week for the last two years. The drive each way was over 3 1/2 hrs. It was not easy. It was not fun, but on June 5th I received my Harvard diploma.
HES classes start after 5 pm with the last class ending at 9:30 pm. To graduate in two years, I took an average of 3 classes per semester. Actually, I had 4 classes during my last semester. You can take a lesser class load, but your time-commuting will expand.
Plan your courses carefully, as you will want to take two courses in a day to avoid driving x-number of hours to school. I found it difficult to align 5:30 with 7:30 classes. There is a plethora of classes at HES, and this was the major reason for going to Harvard in the evening.
Good luck!
Erwin
The Harvard Extension website states that the transcript does not distinguish between on campus and e-learning.
Do the degrees say Harvard or do they specify extension school?
The diploma indicates “Harvard University” and the degree is from the Extension School indicated by the wording on the diploma.
The diploma isn’t markedly different from the others received at Harvard but does state the school.
Is that a problem?
Hello Richard,
Thank you for your blog and the abundance of information concerning HES!
My dilemma for the most part has to start my degree from ground zero, all over again with no transferability from pervious colleges.
Moreover, I am an international Flight Attendant with little or no time to come to Massachusetts or a proctor sight not knowing where I will be for final exams.
Yes, the Harvard name is an intriguing one however; nevertheless as you stated three prerequisite courses that will determine if ones capable of attending HES are quite pricey – especially in today economy.
As poster Jacob Mack pointed out, “Staying at Ashford University” while taking HES courses might be best. Even the University of Phoenix seems to be a choice (considering the COO and board members of Ashford University are graduates of UoP). So much money and so little time…!
I sincerely want to take this opportunity to attend HES, but so many variables’ are at play here.
Again, thank you for the blog; regrettably, I cannot take the gamble with my hard-earned money at this time.
-Gary
As all other graduate schools in Harvard, the diploma is in Latin. There will be two differences between HES and , say, Graduate School of Arts and Science diplomas– HES is a Liberal Arts Master and GSAS is an Arts Master (in Latin). The other difference is the school — HES — appears at the bottom under the HES Dean’s signature.
HES is one of the fourteen degree granting schools in Harvard. After graduation you enjoy all the privileges as any other Harvard Alumni.
As with any school choice, you must decide if HES is right for you.
Hello,
I am a 20-year-old pursuing my bachelors degree. I have already completed two years of my undergraduate degree at a traditional 4-year liberal arts college, but can no longer attend due to the cost of tuition. Long term I am planning on going to law school. I am wondering:
1) How a bachelors degree obtained from HES compares to that obtained at another 4-year college or university?
2) Whether or not graduates of the bachelors program at HES typically go on to graduate or professional school?
and
3) How a bachelors degree from HES compares with that of a bachelors from Harvard College? Is a degree from HES seen by graduate schools and employers as akin to a degree from Harvard?
Thanks!
1. It depends on what you mean by compares. A degree from HES is a 4-year degree the same as any received from any other 4-year school.
2. Many, many graduates of HES go on to graduate school. HES graduates have attended some very prestigious graduate programs, including those at Harvard.
3. This is a much more difficult question. The education is certainly comparable but the prestige from the degree is probably not. It’s important to think about what you are really after: a degree or a pedigree. They aren’t the same thing. You’ll get a very good education at HES but not a lot of socialization or hand-holding. You also won’t live in a dorm room with the progeny of blue-bloods. Decide what is important to you and make your choice.
A pre-law society exists at HES do at least a few others are working hard to do exactly what you are looking to do.
Hi!
My name is Jessika!
The HES Master’s in Technology and I can do this from my Rocky Mountain home ? I can ski Vail and attend Harvard in the same day- are you kidding ? I have searched and searched and this is by far the best option for me to get my grad degree from a top shelf school. I am thankful to Harvard for providing the option! I am reading some of the other comments on this board and I just want to say many of you seem to be hung on the concept that the ES is somehow ‘less’ prestigious – not at all in my opinion. Go on the internet and surf for online degrees, wow, a lot of real junk out there in virtual schools and strip-mall colleges. That’s what you need to stay away from. I think that if one of the top rated educational institutions on the planet extends their hand to those of us who are ‘geographically dis-advantaged’ (ha) we should embrace it as a huge opportunity. I will. Cheers.
Hi, my question is regarding the graduate degree in management from Harvard extension School, do employers look at you as a harvard graduate after the degree or are you considered less?What sort of jobs do graduates of harvard extension school hope to get?
That depends entirely on the employer. As far as Harvard is concerned, you are a an alumni.
Hi Richard,
I’m wondering if I want to enroll in ALM of Management, I have to take the risk of studying 3 prerequisite courses right? Can you list which of these 3 courses should I take?
Is the diploma written HES or just harvard university? Personally, do you think the quality is really that of Harvard?
I’m still a traditional student by age because I’m still a senior in MSU and thinking about going somewhere for my master. So, if I successfully pass those 3 courses, is there anything else that I should do to get into the program? IS it guaranteed that I can get in with those 3 courses?
Can you take all the course on campus instead? How about living in Cambridge? Are rent that expensive? How much will be for a typical 1 bedroom or 2 beds per month?
Thanks in Advance
Francis,
You have way too many questions there for me to answer.
My best advice is to pay the school a visit or talk to the program you are looking at directly. That’s what I did. You’ll find that there are lots of people there who can answer your questions.
Don’t worry about the diploma. Worry about whether or not the program meets your needs from an educational and structure requirements perspective. If you are looking at the programs based on some perceived band value, you are likely to be disappointed.
Harvard’s programs are good ones but ultimately my decision was based on which courses they offered and how they offered them rather than any value derived from them being associated with Harvard University.
I already have a college degree and I am interested in a Masters Program offered through the Extension School. I was curious how graduates of the extension school master’s programs have fared when applying for doctorate programs at universities?
They’ve done very well. I know of several ALM graduates who have go on to very competitive Ph.D programs all over the country. Many people see the ALM as a stepping stone to a Ph.D because of the thesis requirement. ALM candidates fare very well in admissions.
There are a lot of extremely valuable information in this blog. However, it starts to get a bit confusing. I am an Army Pilot with a MBA from UT at Arlington. I’m looking to continue my graduate education with a degree from a prestigious school such as Harvard prior to retiring from the Army in five years. This brings me to several questions:
1) Is HES right for me as a military service member?
2) Is the impact of a degree from HES the same as Havard University and is it articulated on the Degree in any manner in which potential employers may differentiate?
3) How feasible will it be to complete all the on campus requirements in a summer and a regular term?
Thanks for any input,
I have another quick question… assuming that I meet the requirements to apply (3 classes with B or better with one course being a proseminar), what are the chances of acceptance into the program? Will acceptance be largely automatic or will acceptance largely be based on my application and essays?
Archie,
There are many current and former members of the military taking classes at HES. Many are degree seeking students.
The diploma is the diploma. Employers will know that your degree is from the Extension School. This is not a bad thing. It is a Harvard degree, and you are considered an alumnus of the school. You can join the Harvard Club and you will attend Commencement.
You can get all of your on-campus coursework out of the way in two terms.
James,
Assuming that you can earn the grades in the classes you take, you can counsider yourself over the biggest hurdle. The application is mainly to give the admissions committee some information about you and your goals so they can determine if HES is a good fit for you. The admissions process is not anywhere as difficult as it is in other graduate programs primarily because you prove you can do the work before you are ever eligible to apply.
As a recent graduate from the ALB program, I can assure you that the admissions program is “deceptively” selective. Imagine for a moment that you are a non-traditional student, having been several years removed from formal education, and you are seeking a means of attaining a bachelor’s degree from a reputable institution while also meeting possible work and/or family obligations. For anyone in this scenario, the reputable choices become severely limited. Higher education still very much favors the traditional student. To gain admission to the ALB program, one must already be confident in their ability to perform well at Harvard. The process is self-selective as one must be present in Cambridge (which means relocation for those that are not), must receive a B- in at least three courses and must have a way of supporting themselves (either by a generous benefactor, large saving account, but usually a job). It must be noted that HES does not offer financial aid until one is officially admitted into a program. So in order to gain admission, one must KNOW that they are academically prepared to study at this level, must make a considerable financial sacrifice (full tuition for at least three courses, books, supplies, room, board etc.), and in may cases, must continue to do this while working and tending to family/other obligations.
I myself worked full-time with a family while completing my education and it certainly wasn’t easy. It would have been much easier for me to have done this as a teenager right out of high school with no responsibilities other than excelling in my studies. For Harvard University to provide an opportunity for an academically enabled non-traditional student to earn an Ivy League bachelor’s degree through HES truly demonstrates Harvard’s commitment to academic excellence and academic access.
As for whether this is “really Harvard”, it absolutely is. While the experience is unique (the overwhelming majority of bachelor degree recipients from Harvard are from the College), I have been met with nothing but commendation from others. Most people clearly understand that Harvard is a strong brand and wouldn’t compromise that brand by providing a sub-par experience. As Harvard offers the best traditional undergraduate experience, it also offers the best non-traditional experience is well.
By the way, the degree itself is absolutely beautiful. Having friends and colleagues that have graduated from the College and comparing our bachelor degrees, the College and Extension School degrees (please remember that both are first and foremost Harvard University degrees) read absolutely identically except that the degrees are different (Bachelor of Arts vs. Bachelor of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies) and the Dean of the College and the House Master sign the Bachelor of Arts degree whereas those signatures do not apply to the ALB. Both degrees are signed by the President of the University (I’m honored that my degree bears Drew Faust’s signature) and the Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences (both the College and Harvard Extension School are governed by the Faculty of Arts and Sciences). The ALB bears the signature of the Dean of Continuing Education/University Extension, currently Michael Shinagel.
Members of the College, or any other school within the university for that matter, receive equal standing within the alumni association. The alumni association is phenomenal, I’m constantly emailed to attend fascinating events. ALB alumni, as well as College alumni, are eligible to vote for the University Board of Overseers as well. Again, graduates of HES degree programs are HARVARD GRADUATES and receive full alumni privileges. I am a member of both the Harvard Clubs of Boston and New York City which are open to all Harvard graduates. I received IMMEDIATE career advancement upon graduation and received acceptance into all three graduate programs of my choice.
An admissions representative at Boston University noted how impressed she was that I was able to complete the ALB program while working full-time, with frequent travel, and having family obligations. I stress that HES is the best non-traditional Ivy League experience available.
There are plenty of activities for the non-traditional student (the ones that have some time between work/family) at Harvard, including many Club sports, attending varsity games, cultural and special interest clubs etc. ALB students can apply for coveted research assistant positions, working with esteemed Professors and academics, have access to a variety of workshops and volunteer opportunities including study abroad opportunities. The great part is that you’ll get to know your fellow HES students as well as students from other schools within the university. I will forever be thankful and loyal to Harvard and the Extension School for this opportunity. It is my hope that my children, after graduating from high school with stellar academic records, will continue on to Harvard College and keep a tradition of academic excellence alive.
I want to thank both Richard and Chris for sharing their experiences in this blog. I am currently taking two distance courses and Planning to apply for admissions in two weeks. I took the required Expo course in Campus and for this I traveled on the bus from NY for a whole semester while I was expecting my first child.
I loved the campus and everyone was really nice and helpful. I benefited from workshops and writing tutorials as well as the library for HES students.
I love the courses and this program allows me to be a mother, wife, student, and full time employee all at the same time. I do hope to be admitted next spring.
Best wishes to all…
Paula
Thank you all for your blogposts. Having been on the same shoe as everyone, each post have answers to countless questions I have in mind. Now I am completely convinced to give myself another chance to complete a degree in Computer Science. The stories you shared made me feel strong to decide taking the first of the three preliminary required courses for admission this Spring.
Delia
I can not afford to live in Boston / Cambridge. Living in Salt Lake City suits me well for the On-line studies.
I am glad will attend starting january 2009.
best regards
Marco
I can not afford to live in Boston / Cambridge. Living and working in Salt Lake City suits me well, my job is like the biggest lab for th studies I have chosen in Safety and Environmental Studies.
The On-line studies makes my life easier. Work on the subjects when I get home, not having to deal with campus parking etc.
I am glad will attend starting January 2009.
Good luck and best regards to everyone.
Marco
Great Blog, I am so happy I found it. I am currently signed up to take Expo-25 for the spring and I am so excited to complete my pre reqs and apply for matriculation. Chris and of course Richard, thank you so much for sharing your experiences with all of us. Chris, what you said about gaining admittance to the three grad programs of your choice is very encouraging as I want to move on to law school after my ALB. Just wanted to say, thanks everyone and happy holidays.
Thanks everyone! You have all asked all the questions I wanted too, and provided all the answers I needed. I grew up in Boston, played basketball in the Harvard gym (shh!), am walked the hall as a juvenile. It has always been something more than just a degree. I have always felt I was apart of the place in some weird way. I have an uncle who is now deceased that graduated Harvard Law, but I certainly do not come from some pedigree. I have spent over nine years as a police officer before realizing it was not for me. Since the time I left law enforcement I have longed to finish my degree, and Harvard just feels like home. I will make it through HES as will everyone who knows this program is right for them. Good luck all!!! God Bless…
ok. so to see if i understand in order to complete the bachelors degree online i must take some classes on campus? is there any way around that? once i graduate with the bachelors degree will it say extension on there or just harvard university? and how does the employer know the difference? thank you in advanced!
In order to earn the ALB from Harvard, you MUST attend at least 16 hours on campus. There is no way around this requirement.
You degree will state that you have an ALB in Extension Studies.
Only your employer can tell you if you they consider this to be a problem. It would be unwise to attempt to suggest that you had earned an AB from Harvard College.
Hello!
I looked at the ALB Harvard admissions requirements and I’m thinking this is too good to be true! According to the website, admission criteria requires
*Complete 3 Harvard specific course with a B-
*Meet the expository writing prerequisite
*Have a 2.5 GPA at Harvard
*Meet English proficiency requirements
Richard, could you clarify if the above information is correct?
I should also mention that my previous efforts at an undergrad study are far from impressive. My transcript shows withdrawals and less than good grades. I am hoping that succeeding in the required Harvard prerequisite courses will show that I have overcome any personal obstacles and am an ambitious, hard-working student with outstanding potential.
My question is; with the basic Application requirements consisting of transcripts, resume, essay, etc. will my poor academic history prevent admission to the HES program?
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer questions!
Your past academic performance isn’t necessarily relevant in this context.
If you can manage to earn the required grades in the three required classes you’re probably going to get admitted. If your academic record isn’t too spotty (and by spotty I mean lots of disciplinary actions), then your actual past academic performance isn’t necessarily going to hinder you. You just need to be sure you can do the work.
Keep this in mind: getting those grades is no mean feat. The professors for the writing program are keenly aware of their ability to serve as a filter for students who don’t have the academic ability to graduate. That said, they are there to help, and if you demonstrate an ability to learn, you’ll probably be fine.
It’s far more important that you have the determination to succeed now rather than in the past. HES is all about providing second (even third) chances to those who missed out on a decent education the first time out.
I wanted to ask:
how have people fared career wise with a degree in Management from HES?
Hey Everyone,
I have completed about 65 units of undergrad course work and am considering transferring to the HES program. If I am able to transfer all 64 units allowed…
– How quickly can I complete the ALB degree as a full time student also attending summer school ?
– Is concurrent enrollment in the HCP program possible to complete both programs simultaneously?
…all responses are truly appreciated!!!
You can register for up to 16 credits per semester without petitioning for an overload. That would be a full-time student course load. If you do that, you can finish those last 64 hours in 2 years, faster if you also attend summer school.
I don’t know much about the HCP program. Theoretically, you can do both since being in the HCP entails taking all Extension coursework.
does anyone know what is the difference between the certificate program in publishing vs the masters in journalism. I want to write novels. I don’t feel like i can just go at it blindly.
Also, I am not sure of the difference. Please advise…I do already hold a Masters in Public Health and sort of don’t want two degrees (although people do it all the time)
Hi,
I see many people who are not sure whether HES is a quality school or not. They wonder whether their diploma will worth anything or not… That’s why I wanted to share my profile with you to show what kind of people attend HES and how this should change your view of the school.
I am a Master’s in Management candidate in HES. At the moment I work in Europe as an IT consultant and probably I am one of the very few experts in my field in the whole world. That’s why I have been contracting for almost a decade for some tech companies who are among the biggest in the world. My monthly salary reached $35000 sometimes. Now notice, this is perhaps three times more than what a Harvard Business School graduate’s medium salary is! And I have only a
Bachelor’s degree from and unknown school in Europe… Why am I telling you this?
First of all, prestige of your diploma is not the most important thing. As you can see what matters is your expertise, your experience. I remember
turning down an Oxford graduate for a position that I had to recruit for. Because he didn’t have the experience. That’s why I did not even call him for an
interview… Don’t forget; companies are not living in fantasy worlds like you do. They have no time and no enough money to waste for waiting guys with fancy diplomas! They want people who has the experience. So, your school is the first step in your endeavor to find a good job. The second step is to
specialize and worth something. People who are recruiting, most of the time, have no clue about what school is teaching what and what is its ranking.
What they have is your CV. So, if you think you will cheat someone to give you an easy fortune just because you are a graduate of school X, you are deeply mistaken.
Second, as soon as I found about HES, I didn’t even look at other schools. Because it provides the most ideal education. 1-It doesn’t ask you to take some stupid irrelevant test. It says; “ok go ahead and take a few courses. If you are good then you study.”. This makes HES a good school for me. Not a low quality school. 2- It offers countless number of courses. This is excellent since as an experienced professional, I know which courses I need and I want to be able to choose them. I don’t want to waste money and time on useless courses which are only designed to make money. 3- It is cheap. It is not overvalued!
It gives an education which adds value to me not steals from me. It was hard for me to make what I have now and I don’t want to lose it for an overvalued “commercial” diploma. If you want to go to HBS, you will need to spend around $150000 in two years. Add to that the lost salary if you don’t work, it becomes a fortune! Now that is silly for me. Simple as that… Sometimes we take the same courses with Harvard College students. But they pay probably more than $5000 for that course although a HES student pays $1700. Now is that being stupid? 4-It allows me to work and is very flexible. You will not find any MBA that is this flexible. I can be on the other part of the world and study. That’s what I need since I am a contractor. 5- It is Harvard. Some of my instructors will be from Harvard Business School some from Kennedy School of Government some from Harvard College some from Harvard Medical School some from Harvard Law School… As you can see you experience the whole Harvard. Not just one school. Also don’t forget, Harvard is not the only school in US. There are other good schools and good professors too. You will have a chance to experience some of USA’s best schools and instructors through Harvard’s filter. I can mention schools like MIT’s Sloan Management School since I saw a professor giving course in HES. 6- I will be a Harvard graduate! Simple as that…
So, given all the points above, if someone told me that I am admitted to HBS, I would say: “no thanks” unless it was one year, about the same price range as HES and as flexible. As you can see some of us are choosing the schools based on what we need not based on its prestige.
What I am saying is, too many people are concerned about the prestige of their diploma then its content, its quality. I think that’s because most of you have never worked. You have no clue about business environment. You have no clue that most of what you will learn will worth nothing when you start working.
You expect that companies will keep on paying you their hard earned currencies just because you are a graduate of the school X! I can tell you, that won’t happen! You have to have the talent, the skills, the intelligence.
So, if you are concerned about HES’ prestige then perhaps you should go somewhere else… Don’t take HES lightly. There are very few graduates of it.
I am sure many who are asking whether HES is good for them or not are forgetting the fact that they might not have the capacity to graduate.
Good luck to everyone! No matter what school you will choose, it will be a very difficult year economically. Perhaps the same next a few years. So make sure
you save your money
Hi Richard, my name is Simone. I must say that it is a quite humble and sometimes embarassing story but I goofed off MAJOR in high school, my transcripts do not in anyway express my academic potential because I was not taking high school seriously, and I never took the SAT’s. Circumstantially, I dropped out of high school in 11th grade and proceeded to work fulltime and support myself and my household. I just received my GED and I was wondering what my chances look like as far as getting into HES ? I am 19 years old and I have yet to start my CORE classes as a freshman. I do however, plan to receive my AA at BMCC. Is it possible for me to finish my education at HES after I receive my AA? My desired concentration is Public Administration and International Affairs (I see myself working with the United Nations) doing what exactly I am not sure. An Ambassador perhaps ? Please respond in e-mail.
Thanks in advance,
Simone
Thanks for a great blog. It’s been a big help in my decision making process.
My question is, what is the cheapest most cost effective way to meet the residency requirement?
I live in the Wash. D.C. area so I can’t commute.
Do the residency over two summers. You can take two classes each summer over 8 weeks. This will meet the residency requirement.
Another option is to commute once per week and stay overnight. You can take two classes on the same evening and do this over two semesters. It’s definitely doable from the DC area.
Does anyone have information on trends in e-learning vs. instructor based education? Price/cost advantage of e-learning?
Thank you!
Julie
Long time reader, first time poster. I’ve been a computer programmer for several years, a senior software architect, and other accomplishments. All with out a collegiate experience to speak of. I took off for 4 years and ran around the rain forests of the world, now I’m ready to combine both experiences. I have fell in love with Cambridge and believe it will foster the demands of my future goals. MIT seems to frown on non-traditional undergrads, how would one rate the IT/Computer Science focus of the ALB program?
Regards,
Andrew
I am writing from first hand experiences of both Harvard College and the Extension School. Regarding the question of whether the HES degree and College degree are regarded similarly in the world: I think you would do a better service to answer this question honestly and without demeaning the College and its student body. The honest answer is no; an HES degree is not and should not be regarded similarly to the College degree (or graduate and professional school degrees). They are different schools with fundamentally different missions and standards. And not simply because of the “pedigree” and “blue bloods” of the College or its social scene – because of the highly competitive nature of admissions, the amazing drive and talents of the student body, and the demanding rigor of Harvard College classes. Your comments about traditional College students are openly prejudiced and express a stereotyped view what the school was, not what it is. Diversity across all vectors is increasing, needs-blind admission policies are well established, and the school’s financial aid packages really do ensure that if you can earn your place, you can afford to attend. You can celebrate the richness and well-respected reputation of HES without insulting the College. Can’t you?
Hi Penny,
I think you would be hard pressed to argue that the attitude of the College students toward Extension students is any more generous than the one I offered in my article.
Extension students are regularly chided for claiming a Harvard affiliation of any degree and regularly dismissed by College students as a student population unworthy of any standing in academic setting.
Your own comments seem to underlie this point:
What standards are you talking about? Are you suggesting that the standards of the Extension school are lower than those at the College? I’ve taken classes in both schools and my own estimation of the level of work and difficulty between the courses in the two programs is pretty close to even.
Furthermore, my own experience as a student in contact with College students and FAS students revealed a surprising level of ignorance about our school and its mission. I’ve had to correct the Crimson on a number of inaccuracies in their articles that fed the impression that the bulk of students who attend and complete the Extension program are simply attracted by the Harvard brand or are otherwise attempting to usurp some of the accolades that have accumulated to Harvard alum as a whole. This is unfair.
There have been some surprises. Some of the students that serve as TFs for classes that are offered to College and Extension students seem more than willing to accommodate the range of experiences and learning styles of students in the Extension program. Few, if any, judge the HES students as limited or lesser in any way than College students.
But the larger population of College students remain blissfully unaware of the merits of the Extension program at best and at worst suspicious or dismissive of any student who didn’t pass some hazy standard of “acceptance” in the College claiming any title to alumni status.
There are talented and driven students at the College. There is no doubt about that. My only criticism of the College is driven by the prevailing belief that they are somehow more talented and driven that students at HES. I don’t believe that this is the case and I think it’s an assumption that belittles both the Extension program as well as the supposed depth of perception that is supposed to underlie the renewed emphasis on diversity at the University.
Penny I think that post was quite unnecessary!?!
Richard has done a great job in responding to your post!
I did my undergraduate degree in the University of Cambridge, England (which I am sure you know is rated the second best school in the world right after Harvard, and the best in the UK), and I am now about to complete my masters degree there. I believe it would be quite shallow of you to look at the people who attend HES as ‘less qualified’ than the people in Havard Business School or otherwise (refering to their admission standards or whatever you were refering to) as if I were to apply to HES and get in (which is a great option), it would be very very wrong of you to assume that you are in somewhat of a different league than I am!!! I believe your comment above could have been phrased in a more respectful manner as from my point of view, your comment has a tone of arrogancy to it! People who think like that need to change their mind set and begin to give all people who are even willing to get an education and better themselves the respect they desrve!
Kids will be kids! How can one expect a person that has probably never held a real, full-time job or raised a family to understand or appreciate the inherent challenges that many non-traditional students face on a daily basis? While “their” academic performance throughout grade school is undoubtedly commendable, most of them are simply unable to internalize the sacrifices that non-traditional students make in pursuing their education. I assure you that most of them, upon graduation, will experience a distinct wakeup call that will adjust their attitude and erode much of their sense of entitlement and self absorption, especially in these economic times. It’s saddening that their world revolves around an obsession with exclusionary methods of evaluation, that many of them cannot find value in something unless a grade is placed on it. What’s more, their attitudes serve as an example of how intolerance often leads to discrimination and prejudice. Luckily, MOST Harvard College students do not possess such elitist and outdated views on continuing education. I have spoken to several Harvard College students and graduates and most seem to understand the purpose of the HES degree programs very well. Yes, the College provides a more intensive program as it is a FULL-TIME program and thus should be intensive if all a student is expected to do is study and attend class. With that, HES is closely modeled after the Harvard College curriculum and an A.B. graduate and an A.L.B. graduate will have each received an outstanding classical liberal arts education. We are living in a truly fascinating moment in history where the walls and barriers of old are crumbling right before our very eyes. The attitude that a world-class education should be reserved for a chosen few will, in time, erode right along with the rest of the unjust barriers to access. I applaud HES’s admissions policy that is based on the premise that if one can do honors level work at Harvard, then one deserves to study at Harvard. Many of the College students simply believe that a Harvard bachelor’s degree should be reserved for them and them alone. According to the 2006-2007 Harvard factbook, the College conferred 1,629 A.B. degrees while the Extension School conferred a mere 108 A.L.B. degrees. Those 108 individuals made sacrifices that the 1,629 were fortunate enough to have avoided. When you combine character, age, work experience, maturity and academic ability, you arrive at a determinant of success that far exceeds any 1600 SAT score. While some College students may have their issues with HES, the university’s administration seems to believe that HES degrees are indeed Harvard degrees. I trust that the President & Fellows of Harvard College would NEVER place the name of such a preeminent institution on a degree that they somehow felt was inferior or not in keeping with Harvard’s standards of excellence in all areas, including continuing education. Apparently, however, there are some teenagers in the College that feel they know what’s best for Harvard. Food for thought. By the way, the Harvard Crimson is nothing but a bunch of egotistical, bratty kids “playing” newspaper. Take their misguided comments on HES as simply entertaining satire as the majority of their comments on HES are self-serving and void of fact.
I am considering the extension program very seriously and am so grateful for this blog. I am in my 30’s, and have a BFA from NYU.
I have long wanted to return to school but frankly the not until I learned of the extension program did I consider I could find such an amazing program/and access to a world class education while working full-time.
Truth be told, I have always felt I sort of blew it with my initial degree. I graduated with excellent grades, and enjoyed the experience but I am now focused on an entirely different track. I am uncertain if the masters is the best step for me to take and I am curious how many of the HES students are pursuing a second bachelors? I should add that my goal is now continue into a traditional masters program. I worry my BFA which is in creative writing may not be the best foundation for most graduate professional programs and and unsure if the best step is essentially a second bachelors or if the ALM would bridge the gap and help strengthen my application for Ivy level professional degree masters programs. Any advice you have on ALM versus ALB is much appreciated for someone with a BFA.
I am considering the extension program very seriously and am so grateful for this blog. I am in my 30’s, and have a BFA from NYU.
I have long wanted to return to school but frankly the not until I learned of the extension program did I consider I could find such an amazing program/and access to a world class education while working full-time.
Truth be told, I have always felt I sort of blew it with my initial degree. I graduated with excellent grades, and enjoyed the experience but I am now focused on an entirely different track. I am uncertain if the masters is the best step for me to take and I am curious how many of the HES students are pursuing a second bachelors? I should add that my goal is now continue into a traditional masters program. I worry my BFA which is in creative writing may not be the best foundation for most graduate professional programs and and unsure if the best step is essentially a second bachelors or if the ALM would bridge the gap and help strengthen my application for Ivy level professional degree masters programs. Any advice you have on ALM versus ALB is much appreciated for someone with a BFA.
If you already have a bachelor’s degree, HES will not allow you to register to earn a second one. Your only choice is to go for one of the ALM programs.
That said, you might find that one of the Liberal Arts ALM programs is right up your alley. If you need some refresher coursework to get yourself ready for a different program, HES offers all of those courses in a relatively easy format. One of the principal uses of HES is to get some backup coursework to prepare for a graduate program somewhere else.
Penny,
I am sure that you worked very hard to get into Harvard. None of us knows anything about your life or what you went through to gain admittance and earn your diploma, and noone is disputing that. You, also, know nothing about us or where we come from.
I’m glad that whatever your upbringing, you knew that Harvard was an option. I didn’t. Perhaps I should have had some magical ability to rise above my status and see things that noone else around me saw. I did not.
There are only a couple of college graduates in my entire extended family. I live on the other side of the country, almost as far from Boston as you can get and still be on the continent. Harvard was a name occasionally heard in movies and was as far from reality as my walking on the moon.
I didn’t even understand what a college education meant at that stage in my life. I was a dirt poor, ignorant, trailer park white girl with no college ambition…and who was there to model anything else to me?
Many years have gone by and I am now in my 30’s. I have always been very self educated. I am a hard worker. I have experience in the world in many different jobs and capacities. I am not a victim of my circumstances. I want to reach out and grab life by the horns. I have been thinking about going back to school for a long time and I know I bring all of my experience and maturity to the table. I was ecstatic to learn about this program. I dislike community college because I have not found it challenging enough.
Do you mean to tell me that because you came from a better situation than I did, because someone impressed to you the importance of higher learning at a tender age, and because you attended your classes during the daytime rather than at night (because you were working full time all day long), that you are somehow better than me?
I mean, essentially, that is what you are implying, is it not?
I am GRATEFUL that an honored institution such as Harvard would care enough about education to offer such a program. It is not less. It is different. It is immature and snobbish to suggest otherwise.
As for the people on this blog who have offered their experience and insight with HES, I greatly appreciate you. You all seem well rounded and eloquent and I would be proud…I would be honored to be counted among your number.
Thanks and be blessed.
The HES is a portal by which new talent can enter Harvard! Being more mature, well read, and stable in ones academic interests, gives the HES an edge. Nobody should allow ageism-which is discrimination!-to influence his/her decision to pursue higher learning. If your goal is to attend Harvard, then the HES is a good means for doing so!
Hello…Am considering doing my undregraduate degree at HES.I intend to go onto medical school.WOuld I be able to complete my degree in 2 years and whats the chances of me getting into havard medical school or another Ivy League.I did a 1 year college course in London which is equivalent to 3 A levels
Josh,
Whether or not you can complete your degree at HES is completely up to you. It’s not out of the question but it would be hard to get it done in that amount of time.
As for medical school, I’m no expert. I can tell you that it is exceptionally difficult to get into ANY of the Ivy League medical schools.
OK thanks Rich!!!So what can I do to make my self more attractive to get into onr of the Ivy league med school.Should I do a master after or should I double major at the extension school,or get special student status and take courses at havard college ,and then transfer to havard college or John hopkin to complete my undergraduate degree there????/Please somebody share some light here……Rich!!!!help me
Josh,
I don’t have any easy answers to you. You probably guessed that you need to do very well in whatever undergraduate school you end up attending. I’m not sure what else you would need for medical school. HES has a program called the Health Careers Program. You should probably take a look at that. If you do well in that program, they will help you get into a medical school.
Hello,
I’ve been reading all of the responses above, and I want to thank those both who answered and asked the questions because it helped me learn a lot more about HES.
Nevertheless, I am transferring from another University. Which is actually a very well respected University. I am a bit shy to admit that this is actually my second time transferring, I completed about 2 and-a-half years there, and decided to transfer for a mixture of reasons related to financial, distance, lack of respect from the university.
I double majored in Philosophy and Political Science, so most of my classes are in the Liberal Arts sector. I completed roughly about 75 credits at this institution, how much of it do you think will be transfered to HES? Because I am in a way traumatized, so to speak, for needing to transfer again, and I just want to get school over with and, hopefully, move onto Law School.
My second question, is there such thing as a major at HES or anything of the like?
Thanks in advance,
Sam
Hi. I just recently discovered this program at Harvard and have been reading all of the comments. I have a BS in Computer Science from a small private college in NC (Campbell U) and an MS from George Washington U in DC. I worked full-time while getting my MS and finisehd with a 3.5. However, my undergrad career was a bit of a mess. I was expelled due to poor grades from my first school and ended up finishing with just over a 2.0 from Campbell. I would like to attend law school, but they of course put a lot of emphasis on undergrad GPA. I was looking at this program to wipe the slate clean, so to speak, and eventually apply to law school. Does anyone have any advice for me…is this a good idea?
Thanks in advance.
KA,
Don’t worry about your undergrad GPA. They are much more concerned about your RECENT academic work and your LSAT score.
I any case, Harvard will not let you get another undergrad degree from them if you already have one. What you CAN do is take a few courses that show you are a serious student.
BTW, how did you like GWU for Computer Science?
Hi Richard,
Just stumbled on this blog and its practically made my day! Just like a previous post I’m also an IT contractor based in the UK and doing well in my career – last year earned equivalent of US$200,000 and been thinking o f doing an MBA to broaden my understanding of business, but I cant get into any of the top schools because my undergraduate GPA is very low – 2.0. Would a HES course/ degree help my applications to these schools? What courses would you suggest I take. will the 3 pre-requisite be enough or a full ALM?
Also can you put me in contact with ‘General’ – also from Europe, commented on your blog.
Thanks.
Hi UK Guy,
I’m not sure if an ALM course will help with your applications to the other schools. If you do well, it might do something to mitigate the idea that you aren’t a serious student/candidate.
Richard,
Thank you for your informative posts, they served to educate me much about the process. Last semester, I took a class at HES but was unable to finish. My Aunt suffered complications from Diabetes and almost lost her leg. I’ve been taking care of her all, and i want to try again, but i want to know if messing up that class has ruined my academic record and ruined any chances of working hard again towads my degree.
I don’t think you’re a lost cause Dorian.
Just speak to the advisers and get yourself set up to try again. You’ll be fine.
Comments to KK/etc..
I am an HES student; and yes I like the rigour and the drive of the students in HES/College. I agree with KK. I agree that the students there are arrogant. Yes I do. Because they have the right to be arrogant /and elitists, because after all they are the BEST in the world ( right KK? You happen to be studying in the second best school, so therefore we can’t blame the writer from the college to treat you differently, if she wants to). Also please don’t compare UK to US schools, because for me, UK schools are far inferior and old. They failed to revolutionize and change with times. So for the writer from Harvard to demean HES was her right, just like we have the right to say our piece calling her arrogant.
Just lets accept the fact that the college and other grad schools at Harvard are more rigorous, based on the selection criteria they set compared to HES.
SAT, GMAT and countless recommendations, and of course costs, that students have to shoulder to get into these programs.
Who cares if HES is inferior to the other College/Programs, —it is not inferior to the other schools and universities.
P.S> UK guy with 2.0 GPA. I think HES will not admit you ( please check the admission requirement regarding undergraduate courses–you need to have an honours degree – if earned from the UK- besides why go back to school if you earn that much a year – a question to you too general?).
I came across this blog as someone who is interested in taking a class or two in Environmental Management at the Extension School. I went to Harvard College and Harvard Law School and am an associate at a law firm that does a fair amount of toxic tort litigation, thus my interest in the aforementioned subject area.
A few things: Harvard Extension School is a fantastic option for people who are interested in learning for the sake of learning, completing an unfinished degree, or picking up a skill as a means of professional development. Education is what you make of it, and there are many fine professors that are instructors there. That said, the experience at Harvard Extension School is nothing like the experience at Harvard College. The latter is arguably the most competitive school in the country, the former has open enrollment (the previous commentator who stated that you’re competing with students at the College for grades, or anything else is incorrect). The professors that teach at Harvard Extension School are typically not FAS professors, though there are exceptions. In any case, they’re not the professors people come to Harvard to work with (and this is an important distinction – undergrads at the College are choosing to attend Harvard to work with Michael Sandel or Stanley Hoffman in the Gov. Department – this is not going to be a possibility in the Extension School). And, unless you’re being deceptive to employers, a degree from Harvard Extension School will not open any doors a degree from Suffolk wouldn’t. It’s the students at Harvard College McKinsey’s interested in hiring, never the students from the Extension School. (as an additional piece of advise – all of these questions about whether the diploma says “Extension” seem like you have an intent to misrepresent yourself, and frankly, it’s what give extension students a largely undeserved “bad” reputation.
Don’t view it as some “back door” into Harvard and, for the sake of not embarrassing yourself, don’t every tell anyone who went to the College that your experience is at all as rigorous, challenging, etc. Regardless of what you purport, it’s not viewed as an equivalent (translation: as good a) school by anyone in the know. I’m don’t think I’m unfairly knocking the school – I think well enough of it to be taking a course there next fall. That said, go in with open eyes.
Aaron,
Congrats on HC and HLS. I’m happy you are looking at HES for some environmental management classes.
But you’re wrong on a lot of things:
1. Recently, you COULD work with Michael Sandel at HES. A few years ago, he offered his course “Justice” through HES at the same time that he offered it at HC. I myself took a class with Jeffry Frieden on International Political Economy. I asked him pointedly if there was any difference between the grading standards for the HES students and those for the HC students. He said there was NONE.
2. A fair number of FAS professors offer their classes through HES. This is particularly true of the Computer Science department where Michael Mitzenmacher has been offering his classes through HES for quite some time. Furthermore, his program might actually be more difficult than it is for HC students, since they typically have to complete the work without the benefit of peers to help them complete assignments outside of class.
3. I would hesitate to say that grading at HC represents any sort of grade competition. Until VERY recently, grade inflation was a terrible problem at HC. Very very few people fail out of Harvard College and there have been numerous instances of students who have committed blatant acts of plagiarism but are allowed to remain at the College. I dispute the notion that HC students do not compete with HES students for grades. There is plenty of evidence that the yardstick to measure student performance is the same for HES students as it is for HC students.
4. Stating that HES professors are somewhat lesser than HC professors is a bit of a shot at the excellent teaching staff at HES. Most of the classes offered at HES are from bona fide Harvard instructors. Some of them come from the College, but others come from the Business School, others from the Law Program. I took a class from Allan Ryan, who:
That’s not exactly a pedigree to be ashamed of, and even if he doesn’t teach a course at HLS, he’s not a bad person to learn Intellectual Property from.
For what it’s worth, I attended another school in the (original) Ivy League and between the classes there and those at HC/HES, the classes there were MUCH harder.
So congrats on getting into Harvard, but I’m far from convinced that the educational experience is as demanding or as challenging as you suggest. I’ve taken the classes and earned the grades. The hardest thing about HC is getting in. Once you do that, it’s pretty easy to finish the program.
Aaron
I have a double masters degree from other universities, finished at the top of my class from my undergrad degree. I am concurrently doing a PhD at the premier western university in another part of the globe while studying at HES. I could have easily picked any ivy league universities to complement my research, but I chose HES for the same reasons. I am in the position to say that the programs at HES are rigorous ( I took computer science subjects, and I guess there could be no more rigorous- or painstaking- than professors in the courses giving long and complicated assignments every week, than writing essays, reports or presenting in a class to impress your professors in other courses).
In other words, my time at HES did not only stretch my time but also my intellect ( without embarrassing myself), but I would assume that you were referring to social sciences/law or environment etc., where writing essays and a simple gift of gab, plus the command of the first language is just a prerequisite to get through and get the right marks from either HC/HLS or HES.
For Richard,
I have to admit that the programs at HC are as demanding and as challenging as Aaron suggest ( especially on most of its programmes). HC has been producing a list of breakthroughs in its many areas, ( I am referring to Nobel winners etc.).
Also, you are incorrect when you said it is pretty easy to finish the program once you get in to HC( please refer to the statistics of drop outs from HC), count the in the inclusion- the founder of MSoft and Facebook, etc. ( I am not implying that they dropped out because they were not good, they did simply because they had to — they could not balance work and study at HC, for obvious reasons. They could have gone to HES and attend classes via distance.
So let’s stop the comparison and competition between HC and HES. Both are under Harvard. Its like brother and cousins, with no major difference, who knows in the future HES will produce nobel winners, or winners of literary prizes.
It would have been nice if we deal so called comparison with some maturity.
by the way Richard, what program did you complete at HES?
Your statement ” For what it’s worth, I attended another school in the (original) Ivy League and between the classes there and those at HC/HES, the classes there were MUCH harder. ”
implies that HES is no better than the previous Ivy league you attended.
Wasn’t it a disservice to HC/HES? Did it mean that you finish your degree at HES because its much easier ? Also have you studied at HC to make such a calculated comparison?
P.S> I have the impression that most of the people in this blog are so obsessed with earning a degree at Harvard that they simply forget what education is all about.
Richard,
1/2. My point about WORKING with professors was not that one had or did not have the ability to take their courses – rather, it was about serving as a research assistant to Prof. Sandel, or working in the lab of a Doug Melton – opportunities that are available to undergraduates at the College. Most of the “Harvard-affiliated” instructors are lecturers or preceptors – individuals that do not typically teach courses at the College, but may lead a reading group / not-for-credit seminar for undergraduates that focus on their interests. That said, there are exceptions – in looking through the course catalog, I noticed Prof. Fash teaches a course dealing with meso-America. He really is fantastic and I’m glad that non-traditional students have an opportunity to have him as a teacher (which he is in the truest sense of the word).
3. I’d like to avoid commenting excessively on the grading issue, as I have yet to take an Extension School course, but to the uninitiated, I think it’s ridiculous to assert that the answer to “which is more challenging, Harvard College, or Harvard Extension School,” is they’re basically the same. Think about it: an A-/B+ average from Harvard College makes you competitive at Harvard Law School (my class at HLS had 93 graduates in it from the College). If the Extension School was truly as academically challenging, you would expect that there would be at least 1 A.L.B. graduate represented at HLS (I assume SOMEONE is finishing with a mostly A-/B+ GPA). If no one from the Extension School is getting into HLS no matter how well (s)he does there, and literally 200 or so Harvard College kids are getting in with A-/B+ GPAs every year, doesn’t that indicate that HARVARD draws a real distinction with regard to academic quality / competitiveness / what the grades actually mean? I understand the urge to be proud of where you went to school, but don’t be such a fierce defender that you say things that, despite what Prof. Frieden has told you (I had him for 97b), don’t pass the common sense test, at least when applied beyond his course.
4. I have no doubt that from a teaching standpoint, the Extension School probably has, on average, a better faculty. FAS doesn’t hire professors because of they’re ability to command a classroom (many of my professors were horrible – one, the worst instructor that I’ve ever had, going all the way back to middle school). It’s my hope that while the Extension School may not have the most prolific publishers on the planet providing instruction, they’re at least trying to get people to teach that are truly passionate about the material and are good at the “teaching” component of their job.
As a final note, I’m not against the Extension School, at all. I have a very good friend from high school who started off at UMass-Boston and complete her undergraduate degree there. My only point in making any comment is that people should know what they’re getting into before investing a lot of money in the program (i.e. there was a New York Times article a while back in which young people straight out of high school were turning down traditional college experiences at legitimate schools to go the Extension School. This is not smart – they’ve been fooled by Harvard’s marketing department into thinking they’re getting something that is comparable to the Harvard College experience, when (looking at any employment statistics), this is clearly not the case, and is not viewed as such, even by the University (HLS matriculation rates).
Aaron,
1/2. You should take a long hard look at the “Special Student” option available to HES degree students. It’s challenging to make the cut, but it probably goes the farthest towards providing the opportunity a HES student seeks to work alongside some notable names. My own investigation of the option led me away from it since I found that it would be too great a burden on me to travel from DC to Cambridge to attend the classes. Secondly, MOST of the professors who are not Harvard-affiliated are instead professors at other schools in the area. One class I regret not having the opportunity to attend is taught by a professor from the Naval War College. There are many examples like this.
3. My own empirical back-of-the-napkin analysis indicates that there is a considerable overlap between the grading standards and distribution when we compare HES and HC students in the same class. Don’t take my word for it, go ask the professors or read what they’ve written. Their own notes indicate that they see a greater number of HES students who can’t do the work but that otherwise they see students who perform at par with the HC students. Furthermore, the percieved lack of HES students at HLS might be just your own experience. There is at least one person who graduated from HLS cum laude after finishing at HES. Her name is Sarah Buel. You can Google her yourself.
One more thing: the lack of students at HLS from HES might have more to do with a certain snobbishness at HU in general. For instance, it has been practically impossible to transfer from HES to HC and where it has occurred, they have not offered any credit for classes taken at HES. Don’t take the lack of students at HLS as some prime indicator that HES is inferior. It might have lots more to do with the career aims of the students at HES and where they are in their lives rather than some lack of rigor at HES.
Finally, I was ALMOST a source for the NYT article you mentioned. My EXPOs professor was interviewed for the article and is quoted in the story. His impression of his interaction with the reporter is that she was trying to gather evidence to write a particular kind of article either posing the HES students as fakers or the HC students as overpaying chumps. I wouldn’t rely on the article as a primary source of unbiased information.
In this blog, I’ve tried to answer questions about what HES is and isn’t. I don’t think it’s a good place for young people to try their hand at being independent. The school simply isn’t set up for the kind of environment that most 18 to 22 year olds are looking for in a college experience. There are no dorms, almost no social life, and the vast majority of students are far older than 25 with most hovering around 34. At that age, different things matter.
But I am firmly convinced that if you are looking for an non-traditional experience that is comparable to the traditional college experience, then you really can’t do better than HES. The academics are outstanding and the opportunity to leverage the vast resources of the University to expand academic horizons is a big win. A large population of people like me exist in the world who for one reason or another found themselves in a position where they had to make a difficult choice between finishing school or attending some other obligation or opportunity. Some unlucky few have that choice made for them. What HES represents is a way to strip away the stuff that person doesn’t need from a school and leave what matters most: the education.
It might be true that HES students don’t carry the same prestige with them when compared to HC students. I’m trying to make the case that this isn’t some indicator of the quality of the program. Quite a few HES students have achieved some very notable successes and if the trend toward non-traditional education continues, we can expect more talented and driven people taking advantage of the program and raising the profile of the school even more.
Richard,
I think I agree with virtually everything said in your most recent post. The College (as well as any other top-flight “traditional experience” school) and the Extension School shouldn’t really be compared – they service different students who have different needs and are at different places in their lives. I don’t think anyone is really suggesting that students with options should consider Harvard Extension School alongside acceptances from Dartmouth or Yale.
That said, I’ll take Richard’s word for it that the Extension school is one of the best, if not the best, non-traditional student program in the country. So long as students at HES don’t misrepresent themselves and their affiliation with Harvard, then I don’t think there’s an issue. Unfortunately, it seems like every year, there are those who do, and it gives the rest of the students taking classes there a bad name (and reinforces negative stereotypes to students elsewhere who are otherwise unfamiliar with HES).
[ED: Links to Crimson articles removed]
Aaron,
I removed the links that you put into your post because they aren’t relevant to the topic we are discussing.
You seem to be very concerned that HES students are posing as HC students. I can tell you that I have never considered doing this. In all of my conversations with other HES students, none have ever suggested that they were interested in doing this.
You seem to be trying to imply that HES students are somewhat predisposed to obscuring the origin of their degree at HU. I would counter-argue that HC students make this a problem by needlessly acting as if HES degrees are something to be ashamed of. It’s only natural to try and avoid conflict and since HC alumna are some of the most vocal and dismissive critics of HES students, my inclination is to not fan the flames further.
Virtually all of the Crimson articles about HES written by HC students reflect this negative bias. I’m not going to give them additional exposure here.
My position is that HES students aren’t particularly prone to touting the Harvard brand any more than the HBS Executive Education alumni are. If you’re going to make the case that HES students aren’t worthy of the brand because of supposed lax academic standards, then you have to consider the case of HBS Executive Education which doesn’t even assign grades to the participants but awards them alumni status at the end of their “studies.”
I think you’re caught in the trap that unless a school denies more students than it accepts, it isn’t worthy of any respect. It’s the same logical flaw that leads people to think that expensive designer clothing is “better”, or that music by more famous musicians “sounds better”, or that famous actors in top Hollywood productions are more “skilled thespians.”
I reject those arguments.
The prestige from a course of academic study should flow from the rigor of study and the body of work it represents…nothing more. I’m much less interested in teenage beauty contests than I am in someone’s ability to do great work in the world. HES students deserve to be recognized for the actual quality of their work and some mythical Harvard indicia. I’m at Harvard not because it’s Harvard, but because within the program I found an attention to the things that I find valuable in an education with enough flexibility for me to complete the course of study.
Aaron, try and understand that you don’t have to dismiss or diminish our program in order to feel that yours is valuable. It is possible for two outstanding undergrad programs to exist at the same outstanding University.
I have been reading the blogs with amusement. Guys, your arguments are driving potential HES candidates away. These arguments are diminishing the respect I have [for] Harvard students.
What [makes] them think that just because they study or studied at HC make[s] them different from anyone else? Oh yeah, I forgot, except arrogance and ruthlessness. These made them stand out.
Have you ever thought where those people who were responsible for the recession, earned their education?
One suggestion to Aaron, if you are so obsessed with HC why don’t you just take your course there instead? Why intend to enroll at HES?
Aaron,
Why should you and the other spoiled brats be so concerned if HES students posing as HC students?
HES has been existed for decades, even before we were all born. So what the fuss is this about? Who cares who poses [as] who? After all its the corporate world/companies who will make those distinctions.
I agree completely!
When I read all of the remarks I imagine they are being spoken during an open debate with an active audience. I would be ashamed to be a visitor sitting, listening only to learn later the opposing sides were part of the same family. What does Harvard stand for? There will never be two HC.
I admire Richard’s dedication to HES and his defense against so many that think poorly of HES, but even Richard has just recently seen the light.
Two Great Undergrad Programs inside the same family!!!
There is no illusion regarding the very difficult entrance standards of HC, but that does not diminish the fact that there are so many quality students attending HES!
Try and remember HES students are expected to prove their metal first before being granted entrance into a degreed program! It is all about the education that is being offered.
EVERYONE IS CORRECT in their own views, but it all sounds very foolish to me; I am glad it all seems to be over now.
HES sounds like a wonderful opportunity for me and I want nothing more than to receive the ALB there. For the past week or so I’ve been looking through the HES website and other articles pertaining to the Extension program in order to gain a better perspective. After reading much of your comments and seeing the Harvard ring you recently purchased (which is absolutely splendid) I’ve indeed broadened my understanding of the school as a whole.
Currently I’m in the army and deployed so I know that I can’t take online courses at this time since registration is closed until August and there are no proctors for exams. However, I am planning on taking the upcoming fall and spring courses via distance learning to get a good feel for what HES has to offer.
By the time I finish the spring semester my ETS date to leave the army will come up, wherein my plans to move to Massachusetts in order to take evening classes on-campus will be in effect. With the new GI Bill soon to be commenced all my tuition will be 100% paid for and, after being enrolled as a full-time student, a good lump some of money will be deposited into my account every month to pay for food and lodging. This wonderful opportunity that the VA has granted to veterans give me the upper-hand in being able to attend classes full-time while not having to work or do anything other than study or participate in campus groups and organizations.
With that said I am prompted to ask the question: will the staff and faculty at HES look unkindly upon this great advantage? By this I mean that most of the students at HES are fully employed adults with familial obligations while I would just be a guy whose unemployed and without any dependents. In this sense it’s kind of an unfair measure of my busy schedule compared to the hard-working adults that would be my peers. Don’t get me wrong, though! With this avail I would take every lasting moment to be diligent and strive to exceed the standards in my studies and class participations.
My only fear is that, as a veteran afforded with the convenience of having full tuition assistance and enough pocket money paid to me every month, I would not be the caliber of adult-learner that the faculty would be looking for. Is this true?
Please write back and thanks for all your previous input.
Very Respectfully,
Bill
Bill,
Not a single person at HES will look sideways at you for being a veteran. You can be sure of that. You will find that the administration and the professors by and large are genuinely interested in seeing you succeed.
Quite a few active-duty military and veterans make good use of the program. You will find that the attention to detail that is so carefully cultivated in the military will be a great asset to you. What will be more difficult is working on something where success isn’t always so clearly defined. A lot of classes will be like that.
If you’re nervous about being a student at HES, just make contact with one of the ALB advisers. They are there to help you.
A few questions:
1. Have you taken any college courses before? If you have, you should look into getting those transcripts sent to them. If you haven’t, you should probably go slow for the first semester. Take one or two courses to get a feel for the workload and then ramp up as you see fit.
2. What do you plan on studying? What is your ultimate goal? I found that really thinking hard about WHY I wanted the degree helped me to focus my thoughts on what I needed to accomplish.
3. Do you plan on working while you take the degree? Do you have any expectation on what you might want to do in Boston when you get here?
One more thing: While everyone here will help you to achieve your goals, you should know that you will be expected to shoulder the burden mostly on your own. Professors are helpful but will not cut you too much slack. You will be expected to pick things up quickly and without much hand-holding. After all, it’s still Harvard. It’s not impossible, but it isn’t a cakewalk either. You DO have to do the work.
Thanks for your guidance. You’ve helped me get a better view of HES.
During my time in the army I’ve gained over 60 college credits from various schools and will be receiving my Associates Degree in the Korean language from the Defense Language Institute.
I haven’t quite made up my mind yet on what my major studies will be but it’s a toss between religion, anthropology, or classical civilizations. What I plan on doing is taking the prerequisite Harvard courses that I have to take first and then decide what my focus will be on.
If I can play the cards right I shouldn’t have to maintain a job while attending HES since VA will recognize that I would be a full-time student and get paid every month for food and lodging. I hope there wasn’t a misunderstanding in my wording when I was referring to work. By not having to work I meant “not having a job” while attending HES. Trust me, having the ability to go to Harvard would give me enough drive and discipline to take every difficult and critical task given to me with utmost seriousness and determination. When I was at the Defense Language Institute the workload was overwhelming and the coursework was formidably enduring and rigorous but I made it through the program with a 3.5 average and a high level of proficiency in Korean. When I am to attend HES I will apply the disciplines that got me through DLI in order to succeed there.
Thanks for all your input.
Another thing. You wrote to me: “What will be more difficult is working on something where success isn’t always so clearly defined.” I have an idea about what this means but it’s still a little unclear to me. Perhaps you could elaborate on it a little bit more for me.
Thanks.
Bill,
What I mean by success not being clearly defined was the tendency of professors to be unclear about what they are looking for. It’s frequently the case that they are asking you to make an argument about some topic and they aren’t really able to give you a good idea of how to make that argument a convincing one. That’s what I mean.
For a liberal arts oriented degree, you are probably going to have a good time at HES. I would have been much more reserved if you had your heart set on an engineering or hard science degree.
Hi, I am currently enrolled in the Masters of Management at HES. My experience has been fantastic there. I could see a clear improvement in my skills, not to mention in my salary. As a visiting researcher, I took classes at Harvard and MIT other graduate programs before enrolling at HES, and I noticed little difference in the quality of teaching or amount of work. The real difference is made by the contribution of students to the discussion. The big value of HES is that students are usually working during the day, thus enriching the class discussion with stories from their current experience.
I come from Europe, where I had a successful career as a college professor. I decided to change my career, moved to Cambridge to work, and enrolled at HES to gain advanced management skills.
The courses are very demanding. As I work full-time, I can only take two classes per semester. I highly recommend this program to students who are willing to work extremely hard, have a solid academic background, some work experience, and can dedicate their weekends to study, as there are a lot of papers to write and several projects to do in groups.
The HES website states that there will be new requirements for the Masters of Management admission criteria, as well as new degree requirements, to be released in early June.
Can anyone provide any further indication than the website offers as to what these changes are subject to?
I’m an International planning to attend HES in January by taking 3 pre-requisite courses for Master in Management. Is it true that HES wont issue i-20 anymore for International students, even for the degree candidate after this academic year? So is this means that HES is no longer available for International students?
I’m still doing my undergraduate right now in Missouri and will be graduating in December. I need i-20 for visa to attend HES basically.
Francis,
I’m not sure if HES will issue I-20’s any longer. Their website says that they do not, but I saws this on a web forum dedicated to extension students:
So the best bet might be to call the office and inquire about what needs to happen for them to issue an I-20. It appears that they do issue I-20’s for degree candidates but there may be some hurdle that you need to cross in order to get one.
I’m seriously thinking about doing a masters in government through Harvard’s extension school. I’ve twice failed to be admitted to the University of Georgia’s Ph.D. political science program because I’m just too math-illiterate, and half of the GRE is algebra and geometry. I’m 52 and can’t keep beating my head against the wall . . . I would love to do a J.D./Ph.D. in PolSci at Harvard, but again, the GRE would be my greatest obstacle. I wish that Harvard would offer the Ph.D. online, but I’ll take the masters and see what happens from there. . . I invite comments, discussion, etc. – BigSherm7 in Athens, Georgia
Sherman,
HES doesn’t require a GRE but you should be aware that it takes quite a bit of work to get through their programs. A math deficit should probably be corrected before you try to complete the program.
Thanx Richard . . . I can eventually handle any courses dealing with design and analysis of Ed. research, statistical analysis, etc. I took those courses while working on my masters in education . . .but the algebra and geometry, if you teach it to me I forget it 15 minutes later . . .again, thanx for the input . . .
Hi,
I’m a third year student studying Business at UC Irvine. My expected date of graduation is Dec. 2010. I want to go to HES for my Masters (Finance). When should I apply? When should I take my 3 prerequiste classes? Can I take those 3 online or am I going to have to move Cambridge? Once accepted into the program, how long does it take to complete?
Thanks for your time,
Tina
Tina,
I’m not as familiar with the ALM-M (Master of Liberal Arts – Management) but generally speaking, the programs take about 5 years to complete. You will almost certainly have to move to Cambridge to complete the program. Most of the ALM-M courses aren’t offered online and even if they were, HES doesn’t like to have too much of the coursework completed at a distance.
Generally speaking, you will probably have to take the three courses before applying, which means moving there, taking the courses, and THEN applying.
Hey, if it was easy, it wouldn’t be Harvard.
Richard,
Thanks for your prompt response. Correct me if I’m wrong, like most master’s programs’ shouldn’t ALM-Finance take at max 2 years to complete? Why do you say 5 years?
Also, can I take those 3 prerequiste classes before obtaining a bachelor’s degree?
And you’re right, it seems complicated already.
There really isn’t an ALM-Finance. It’s an ALM-Management and you can take the Finance concentration once you’re in that program.
For one thing, that program track requires 48 credits. If you did it full time, it would take 3 semesters to complete. If you did it half-time (and you would be smart to do that because the classes are HARD), that bumps it up to 6 semesters. So you’re already at 3 years.
Then you have to deal with the fact that some courses are only offered on alternate years.
All in all, you CAN do the program pretty quickly compared to the other ALM programs at HES but that almost never happens. Most people take longer to complete the degree.
Hi Richard,
I was wondering what you thought of
CSCI E-207 Introduction to Formal Systems and Computation
How much of a time sink was this class, and how was the difficulty compared to CSCI E-124?
Jeff,
E-207 is a difficult class. I took it with Salil Vadhan and he’s an excellent teacher but there is a significant amount of materal to cover in the class and unless you are comfortable with proofs, it will definitely be a steep learning curve.
E-124 is almost always taught by Mitzenmacher and is a real bear of a course. Algorithms is more difficult than Formal Systems.
In both cases, you should have taken Discrete Mathematics and Data Structures before you attempt either of these courses.
Hope this helps.
I am thinking of attending HES, but I have not had much time to really look at the website and figure out what degree I would like my degree in. My question is how long will it take for me to complete my undergraduate degree from HES?
Faith, that depends. You need to really review the website and ask yourself if HES is really for you.
There’s some lack of comparison here, in the realm of prestige in academics. For example, in the midwest, very bright students would regularly turn down elite programs like Cornell and Carnegie-Mellon to attend the Univ of Illinois/UC for engineering. Now, from a Harvard College person’s p.o.v., he might consider that person to be no different than a ‘lowly’ UConn or UMass attendant. Likewise, this snobbery spills over onto other Boston area private colleges like Tufts and Brandeis, who like the ivies, are trying to convince students not to attend their State U, in place of a higher *mark up* private college experience with the false notion that it’s not what’s in the person but his surroundings which make him a bright and effective individual.
So as you can imagine, in a private college centric northeast, there’s a lot of ambivalence about an Extension school, giving the keys to the kingdom to an outsider. What that does is give a public schooler (yes, it’s a class system concept) the ability to take Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences courses (everyone knows this angle) and show to the Harvard faculty that he’s just as capable as anyone else w/o playing the admissions game of being h.s. school Editor-In-Chief, winning some Westinghouse Award, or having a rich family with a hedge fund who can make multi-million dollar donations for a new building. In a sense, every private college loses when Harvard basically offers a more prestigious and palatable alternative to attending a UMass campus. I suspect that this ambivalence will continue unabated but at the same time, given the paucity in the number of actual HES degree attendants, it’s not enough to shake the foundations of the educational maya which is the predominance of Harvard University.
Are there off-campus living options? I noticed you can take the summer sessions to complete the on-campus requirements of the ALB. I live in Dallas, TX and spending a few weeks in Boston during the summer doesn’t seem too bad.
I just don’t like the $4250 price tag they have for the on campus option.
Shawn,
Of COURSE! There is nothing that compels you to live in on-campus housing during the summer term. You can make you own arrangements as you see fit.
For those who want to live in the Boston-Cambridge area, look at Craigslist and in particular, I recommend sharing rooms in Arlington MA. There’s a bus, No 77, which runs every 10-15 min up and down Mass Ave to Harvard Sq from Arlington Heights. From the point of view of both convenience and safety, this is the place to be, as Cambridge housing is relatively sparse and same goes for Davis to Union Sqs in Somerville.
hello Richard,
I am in ghana and would like to persue undergraduate cause ,but am comfuse .i want to do it on line.Does it mean i have to do both onsite andon line?
Dorcas,
You can take individual classes on-line but to earn a degree, there are some classes that you can only take on-campus. Right now, you need to take four classes on-campus in order to earn the degree.
I plan on going for the ALM-Management degree with a concentration in finance.
Can I apply for summer internships with this degree? Is it realistic to assume that this degree will adequately prepare me for a career in finance? I want to work for a company like Goldman Sachs someday. Is this degree comparable to a MS in Finance?
Howard,
I’m not sure about the ALM-Finance. I did computer science. Sorry.
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